Real Problem With My Real Account !! Pls Advise......Thanks

[Emmy Low]

Hi all,

I just register as this forum member and this is my 1st post. I bought FAP 1 month ago and tested with MT4 demo account ($5000.00). It shows great result with my current setting. It manage to trade with profit > $1500.

2 days ago i decided to open a real account and the result is not good as demo account with the same setting. Is there any problem? For your infor, i just deposit $500 for my real account, is this amount too small since i saw you guys deposit minimum $1000 for real account. I only trade EUR/USD with M1 setting. Below is my setting.... pls advise, thank you.

Lots: 0.1
LotsRiskReductor: 1.0
MaxOrders: 1
MaxLots: 100
aaa: 13
bbb: 14
Take Profit: 10.0
StopLoss: 0.0
TrailingStop: 50.0
SpanGator: 0.5
SlipPage: 3
SafetyGapDemarker: 0.2
SafetyGapWPR: 0.0

Trade results:
Trade close with profit - 20 trade($10 each) :D, Trade close with lose - 2trade ($ 250 each) :( Currently my balance is $200. All the 2 loses trade i close it manually :( because i can't affort to loose since my deposit is small...)

My question:
1) Is there any problem with the setting? If yes, pls advise.....:p
2) I can't see the "StopTime" which you guys discuss, where can i set the
stop time?
3) With the current $200 balance, can i still trade or need to deposit more?

Thank you all your advise.......

[newman]

Hi,

You are a hero. Anyway, this FAPS EA is not for everyone especially the newbie. Don't be fooled by the word auto-pilot.

Listen to me. Stop using it, it would wipe out your account in a very short time.


If you insist, at least change your lot size to 0.01 if your broker supports it, at least you can be in the game longer.

[Grimly Fiendish]

Hi Emmy,

Well your a lot over leveraged, which is why so few wrong trades have dented your account so badly. The rule of thumb I use is 1 lot per $10,000 on your account. So on your account of $500 absolute maximum is 0.05 lots per trade, That will keep you in the game longer and cope with the drawdowns. The 0.05 is the maximum exposure your acccount should have to the market, so if you want to trade more than one position divide 0.05 this by the number of open positions.

If you do some back testing you will find that something between 20-30 pip take profit seems to maximise your gains, 10 pip T/P seems a little thin. Some one else (earl?) may have more data on that, Earl is the experimental back test king in these parts. While Alan is of course the guru. : )

I agree with newman, an autopilot is not what this piece of software is, Expert Advisor is a much more helpful thought to have in mind, it makes trade suggestions, it's up to you if you think they are a good idea. If a health advisor told you to eat nothing but MacDonalds donuts, would you do it? Of course not, treat FAP the same way, much of what it does is good but when it gets it wrong it can kill your account, that is when you hit the Human Brain v1.0 over-ride.

Take stock do some more testing, spend a while running a demo using the best back test settings you find. Hang out here, there are lots of guys with big brains (I'm not one but they are here) learn some more stuf then carefully have another go.

When I take losses, and you will too, we all do. I try to look upon it as the fee I pay to the market for a particular lesson. So long as I remember the lesson I won't have to pay the fee again. (I keep forgetting the lessons).

Only trade with money you are prepared to lose, that said you will only make reasonable returns on a reasonable stake. But while your learning keep it small, and don't be too keen to trade "live" it takes time to learn and market really doesn't care about you and will happily take your cash. The market will still be there once you've learned stuff, the next trade iopportunitys only a button press away.

Good luck
G-F

[Craig BC]

One of the things I have noticed with Demo accounts compared to Real accounts is that the Demo always picks up the close when it hits the TP
The real account sometimes can spike up to the TP , and not take it.
So this can affect the demo testing, and make the real not quite as good as the demo.
But other than that, I don't seem to see any difference.
I am really beginnning to think the only way to win with this is to make sure you have enough margin to handle the huge drawdown.
Every time I've canceled a losing trade, if I would have left it, it would have come back to a winning trade.

[mystikdragon7]

2 days ago i decided to open a real account and the result is not good as demo account with the same setting. Is there any problem? For your infor, i just deposit $500 for my real account, is this amount too small since i saw you guys deposit minimum $1000 for real account. I only trade EUR/USD with M1 setting. Below is my setting.... pls advise, thank you.

Lots: 0.1
LotsRiskReductor: 1.0
MaxOrders: 1
MaxLots: 100
aaa: 13
bbb: 14
Take Profit: 10.0
StopLoss: 0.0
TrailingStop: 50.0
SpanGator: 0.5
SlipPage: 3
SafetyGapDemarker: 0.2
SafetyGapWPR: 0.0

Trade results:
Trade close with profit - 20 trade($10 each) :D, Trade close with lose - 2trade ($ 250 each) :( Currently my balance is $200. All the 2 loses trade i close it manually :( because i can't affort to loose since my deposit is small...)

My question:
1) Is there any problem with the setting? If yes, pls advise.....
2) I can't see the "StopTime" which you guys discuss, where can i set the
stop time?
3) With the current $200 balance, can i still trade or need to deposit more?

Thank you all your advise.......

Hi Emmy,

1) Is there any problem with the setting? If yes, pls advise.....:p
Your lot size is way too large for such a small deposit. Every trade that goes against you is killing your balance and margin. While you are new and starting to learn FAPS and its setting bring the lot size down to .01 Your account will perform a lot better.

2) I can't see the "StopTime" which you guys discuss, where can i set the
stop time
The stop time is right between your max lot and your aaa in your setting screen. Change that to a 1 from the default setting of 5. IMHO that is a better setting.

3) With the current $200 balance, can i still trade or need to deposit more?
I had a starting balance of $500 like you. A couple of things happened (NOT FAPS FAULT NOR MY BROKERS FAULT) to my account and it brought my balance all the way down to $240. I changed some settings around and as of right now my balance is $580 in four days. And this is with faps being shut off every night and turned back on in the morning and only running about 10 hours a day. So I could only imagine how much more money I could have been making.
So to answer your question about needing to deposit more money, I would say no. More money will help your account grow faster if you have it. But I would say it's not necessary if your patient. IT CAN BE DONE!!!

Sounds like Newman has no patience or doesn't have his settings right. Don't let that discourage you. There are many people here that are getting wonderful results using FAPS!!

[Jese]

Great advice mystikdragon7.......

[mystikdragon7]

Great advice mystikdragon7.......

Thank you Jese. Since my last post on this thread my account is now at $630

[Jese]

Emmy,

Im by no means an expert trader. I still have some time to spend on faps before i through some real money at it.

Remember one thing, faps should be treated like a business. And like any business it takes time to prepare. Im not sure why some people start a demo accout with 50k when the can only afford a live account of $1000.

This will only allow the gremlin of greed enter your head once you see your account make $5000 in one night.

In my mind, you will not make a million dollars in 6 months trading the forex. I should know as a student stockbroker.

All my back and forward testing are done with the exact amount i could afford with a real account. This keeps my mind down to reality.

Now back to the business plan. Where i live (Australia) the best cash management account offers you around 8% per year. And usually you have to deposit $25,000 to see these returns. If you can achieve only 10% a month on faps, you are doing alot better that any savings account.

I am going to set my self with a percentage return of around 10-18% return a month then turn faps off and start again next month. If i get stuck in a trade then i will take a loss.

You are always going to take a loss at some time. If you trade in stocks you will take a loss, your superanatuion will take a loss, you will even take a loss at the casino......it goes hand in hand with investing.

This dose not sound like alot on a $500-$1000 account. But if you look at the beautiful frase "compounding interest", and do the maths for your self. You will be impressed with your account after 3 years at 10-18% per month.

It may only be cents to you at the beginning, but you need cents to make a dollar, you need a dollar to make a 100 bucks, you need 100 bucks to make a thousand.

Hang in there mate, we are all here to help. Dont lets some ones bad trade put you off.

[Emmy Low]

Hi Emmy,

1) Is there any problem with the setting? If yes, pls advise.....:p
Your lot size is way too large for such a small deposit. Every trade that goes against you is killing your balance and margin. While you are new and starting to learn FAPS and its setting bring the lot size down to .01 Your account will perform a lot better.

2) I can't see the "StopTime" which you guys discuss, where can i set the
stop time
The stop time is right between your max lot and your aaa in your setting screen. Change that to a 1 from the default setting of 5. IMHO that is a better setting.

3) With the current $200 balance, can i still trade or need to deposit more?
I had a starting balance of $500 like you. A couple of things happened (NOT FAPS FAULT NOR MY BROKERS FAULT) to my account and it brought my balance all the way down to $240. I changed some settings around and as of right now my balance is $580 in four days. And this is with faps being shut off every night and turned back on in the morning and only running about 10 hours a day. So I could only imagine how much more money I could have been making.
So to answer your question about needing to deposit more money, I would say no. More money will help your account grow faster if you have it. But I would say it's not necessary if your patient. IT CAN BE DONE!!!

Sounds like Newman has no patience or doesn't have his settings right. Don't let that discourage you. There are many people here that are getting wonderful results using FAPS!!


Thanks for the advise mystikdragon7... By the way, i still can't find any Stop Time in my FAP setting which you mentioned on between MaxLots & aaa. The detail above which is i copy it from what i have in my EA :o

[mystikdragon7]

Thanks for the advise mystikdragon7... By the way, i still can't find any Stop Time in my FAP setting which you mentioned on between MaxLots & aaa. The detail above which is i copy it from what i have in my EA :o

Mmmm that's weird. Do you have all your initial settings correct like the manual says? I'm sure you've closed the program and restarted it, but I guess you can always uninstall everything and then reinstall it.

[Jese]

Here is a screen shot

[Jese]

Sorry, here it is......

[mystikdragon7]

Oh thanks Jese I was just about to do that lol.

[newman]

Hi,

You are still using an old version of FAPS. Try to download from the web site again for the latest version.

I have performed many back-tests from year 2004 onwards as well as using the optimization settings (as recommended from Alan web site), none can survive long even using a small lot-size. I am using 2 quad-core PCs to run my back tests. For the optimization testing, it took me 2 days to run...the agony part is I can't finished all the passes.

Unless you are using a very very small lot size (I think is 0.01) against a very huge account balance ($12500), with that the return is only about 5% for a total of 3 years, so about 1.67% return per year.

Of course, these backtests do not involve manual intervention. I believe with proper money management and good trading plan, the FAPS can be an effective tool but not as standalone tool.

I would suggest you take a step backward, devise your own trading plan until you are ready to go live on your real account.

As for mystikdragon7 and Jese, if you want, you may send your settings to me, I will run the backtests for you from year 2004 onwards to let you have an insight of your returns.

[mystikdragon7]

As for mystikdragon7 and Jese, if you want, you may send your settings to me, I will run the backtests for you from year 2004 onwards to let you have an insight of your returns.

Lots-.00
Lots reducer-1.0
Max orders-10
Max lots-100
Take profit-20
Stop time-1
aaa-20
bbb-8
Stop loss-0
Trailing stop-0

Starting balance $500 trading with the EUR/USD pair M5.

Post your result when you get the chance. It will be interesting to see what four years could do with $500. Thank you newman:cool::D

[newman]

See the result below :

Symbol EURUSDm (Euro vs US Dollar)
Period 1 Minute (M1) 2004.06.16 12:35 - 2008.10.15 23:59 (2004.06.16 - 2008.10.16)
Model Every tick (the most precise method based on all available least timeframes)
Parameters Lots=0.1; LotsRiskReductor=1; MaxOrders=4; MaxLots=100; StopTime=1; aaa=15; bbb=19; TakeProfit=20; StopLoss=70; TrailingStop=35; UseMAControl=1; PeriodMA=100; PriceMA_0_6=0; TypeMA_0_3=0; SpanGator=0.5; SlipPage=3; OrderMagic=231313; SafetyGapDemarker=0.2; SafetyGapWPR=0; StartWorkTimeHour=0; StartWorkTimeMin=0; EndWorkTimeHour=0; EndWorkTimeMin=0; KEY="570554300";
Bars in test 1372439 Ticks modelled 7501558 Modelling quality 25.00%
Mismatched charts errors 0
Initial deposit 5000.00
Total net profit -1057.33 Gross profit 15881.76 Gross loss -16939.09
Profit factor 0.94 Expected payoff -0.10
Absolute drawdown 1106.67 Maximal drawdown 1107.97 (22.15%) Relative drawdown 22.15% (1107.97)
Total trades 10429 Short positions (won %) 4640 (75.43%) Long positions (won %) 5789 (77.70%)
Profit trades (% of total) 7998 (76.69%) Loss trades (% of total) 2431 (23.31%)
Largest profit trade 2.07 loss trade -7.59
Average profit trade 1.99 loss trade -6.97
Maximum consecutive wins (profit in money) 43 (86.03) consecutive losses (loss in money) 12 (-86.32)
Maximal consecutive profit (count of wins) 86.03 (43) consecutive loss (count of losses) -86.32 (12)
Average consecutive wins 7 consecutive losses 2

[Earl]

:eek: those settings suck....

OMG who's settings are those?

aaa and bbb are the demarker and WPR(fast) internal indicators..those settings are totally of wack

why change them if you don't knowwhat they are???

[mystikdragon7]

aaa=15; bbb=19;

Maybe that's why you keep losing your money so often? How long have you had those setting like that? Have you been back testing back to 2004 with those settings?:cool:

[newman]

Hi mystikdragon7,

I made a mistake on the settings earlier on, this should be the correct result based on your setting except that deposit = 5000 and lot = 0.1, see below:

The return is very good but must endure the drawdown.

Symbol EURUSDm (Euro vs US Dollar)
Period 5 Minutes (M5) 2004.06.16 19:15 - 2008.10.15 23:55 (2004.06.16 - 2008.10.16)
Model Every tick (the most precise method based on all available least timeframes)
Parameters Lots=0.1; LotsRiskReductor=1; MaxOrders=10; MaxLots=100; StopTime=1; aaa=20; bbb=8; TakeProfit=20; StopLoss=0; TrailingStop=0; UseMAControl=1; PeriodMA=100; PriceMA_0_6=0; TypeMA_0_3=0; SpanGator=0.5; SlipPage=3; OrderMagic=231313; SafetyGapDemarker=0.2; SafetyGapWPR=0; StartWorkTimeHour=0; StartWorkTimeMin=0; EndWorkTimeHour=0; EndWorkTimeMin=0; KEY="570554300";
Bars in test 317340 Ticks modelled 7755818 Modelling quality 89.97%
Mismatched charts errors 0
Initial deposit 5000.00
Total net profit 4092.79 Gross profit 12154.15 Gross loss -8061.35
Profit factor 1.51 Expected payoff 0.62
Absolute drawdown 547.72 Maximal drawdown 1571.17 (26.08%) Relative drawdown 26.08% (1571.17)
Total trades 6610 Short positions (won %) 2673 (93.12%) Long positions (won %) 3937 (93.17%)
Profit trades (% of total) 6157 (93.15%) Loss trades (% of total) 453 (6.85%)
Largest profit trade 2.33 loss trade -59.73
Average profit trade 1.97 loss trade -17.80
Maximum consecutive wins (profit in money) 432 (851.79) consecutive losses (loss in money) 20 (-841.00)
Maximal consecutive profit (count of wins) 851.79 (432) consecutive loss (count of losses) -841.00 (20)
Average consecutive wins 131 consecutive losses 10

[Earl]

Hi mystikdragon7,

I made a mistake on the settings earlier on, this should be the correct result based on your setting except that deposit = 5000 and lot = 0.1, see below:

The return is very good but must endure the drawdown.

Symbol EURUSDm (Euro vs US Dollar)
Period 5 Minutes (M5) 2004.06.16 19:15 - 2008.10.15 23:55 (2004.06.16 - 2008.10.16)
Model Every tick (the most precise method based on all available least timeframes)
Parameters Lots=0.1; LotsRiskReductor=1; MaxOrders=10; MaxLots=100; StopTime=1; aaa=20; bbb=8; TakeProfit=20; StopLoss=0; TrailingStop=0; UseMAControl=1; PeriodMA=100; PriceMA_0_6=0; TypeMA_0_3=0; SpanGator=0.5; SlipPage=3; OrderMagic=231313; SafetyGapDemarker=0.2; SafetyGapWPR=0; StartWorkTimeHour=0; StartWorkTimeMin=0; EndWorkTimeHour=0; EndWorkTimeMin=0; KEY="570554300";
Bars in test 317340 Ticks modelled 7755818 Modelling quality 89.97%
Mismatched charts errors 0
Initial deposit 5000.00
Total net profit 4092.79 Gross profit 12154.15 Gross loss -8061.35
Profit factor 1.51 Expected payoff 0.62
Absolute drawdown 547.72 Maximal drawdown 1571.17 (26.08%) Relative drawdown 26.08% (1571.17)
Total trades 6610 Short positions (won %) 2673 (93.12%) Long positions (won %) 3937 (93.17%)
Profit trades (% of total) 6157 (93.15%) Loss trades (% of total) 453 (6.85%)
Largest profit trade 2.33 loss trade -59.73
Average profit trade 1.97 loss trade -17.80
Maximum consecutive wins (profit in money) 432 (851.79) consecutive losses (loss in money) 20 (-841.00)
Maximal consecutive profit (count of wins) 851.79 (432) consecutive loss (count of losses) -841.00 (20)
Average consecutive wins 131 consecutive losses 10we are using auto lots... lots should be 0 not .01

[newman]

Hi,

It is not possible to have 0.01 lot for backtest, hence, you need to increase the deposit to an equivalent ratio. I would post back the result using deposit $1000 and using lots = 0.0 in order to achieve 0.1 auto lot. Stay tuned.

I would PM you the results to both of you as I would not wish to share the result with those that did not contribute to this forum.

[newman]

Wow, roller-coaster result....take a look at the result I sent to you....

[Earl]

Thanks newman...

but at least at the end of the day you have some profit...

and we got to remember what you have there is a set it and forget test...there is going to be lots of profit taking along the way :D

have you come up with anything better?????

I'm looking at something where you can take 10 to 15% risk and still end up on top:cool:

thanks for the back test my laptops face turns red when I try:mad:

[Willsell]

This forum is about sharing.Which means some have lots(pun) to say and others do not.
Look at any forum and you will see more views than post. So your attitude is wrong IMHO.
Can't share then don't post.

[Earl]

This forum is about sharing.Which means some have lots(pun) to say and others do not.
Look at any forum and you will see more views than post. So your attitude is wrong IMHO.
Can't share then don't post.Will your right....but as you know some people just lurk here and leach info without ever giving any input.

I share freely whatever I know....but I did the man hours when it comes to testing. we all need to make suggestions trust me the smallest comment might make a break through.

[newman]

Hi Earl,

Over 900% returns, however, need to manage the risk and drawdown. High risk and high returns....need to manage the drawdown. Any suggestion ?

[Earl]

I think testing is some what flawed....

on my back testing hitting 98% over all and most times it's 1 trade that kills the whole account

[Short14]

I think we have built a pretty good community here thus far... The testing I have done pales in comparison to others on here because I am a total Newbie to Forex trading... But I try to contribute when I can, and show all my results good and bad.... I agree if you don't want to share than don't post.....
One day Earl we will sit down and have a beer or 12 in person... I Guarantee it, and everybody else is invited..... My Treat:):D

[Nelstradamus]

Here's what I've discovered through all of my back tests. I believe (IMHO) that it is best to not carry trades through the end of the month just to get a losing trade wiped out on the first of the next month. So, I believe manual intervention is a must toward the end of each month. Cut your losses if you have to (money management 101).

The other thing I've noticed is if the system is trading against the trend and keeps opening losing trades...TURN OF FAP. It doesn't make any sense to let a losing program run if it's going to Zero out an account. I use other signals that give me trades to take and we only risk 1% of equity per trade. So with common sense (always beware of the greed factor) you'll be able to trade for months and years to come with nothing but profits to show for your efforts.

One of the best stock traders I've ever met opened with the statement "Hi my name is Phil and last year I lost over $1 Million dollars trading, but I made a lot more than that!" Sweet eh?

Remember...Slow and steady wins the race every time. It's better to lose a trade and live to trade another day than lose everything and close up shop.

[Earl]

may back test make money until the very last trade....

I agree with you...trade what you can until the middle of the month and then stop anywhere from the 15th to the 20th. just stop..close what ever trades you've made and call it a month...LOL

[Earl]

I think we have built a pretty good community here thus far... The testing I have done pales in comparison to others on here because I am a total Newbie to Forex trading... But I try to contribute when I can, and show all my results good and bad.... I agree if you don't want to share than don't post.....
One day Earl we will sit down and have a beer or 12 in person... I Guarantee it, and everybody else is invited..... My Treat:):DThanks for the invite... we'll buy our own beer company called the short&long Cheers!!!!

[mystikdragon7]

Hi mystikdragon7,

I made a mistake on the settings earlier on, this should be the correct result based on your setting except that deposit = 5000 and lot = 0.1, see below:

The return is very good but must endure the drawdown.

Symbol EURUSDm (Euro vs US Dollar)
Period 5 Minutes (M5) 2004.06.16 19:15 - 2008.10.15 23:55 (2004.06.16 - 2008.10.16)
Model Every tick (the most precise method based on all available least timeframes)
Parameters Lots=0.1; LotsRiskReductor=1; MaxOrders=10; MaxLots=100; StopTime=1; aaa=20; bbb=8; TakeProfit=20; StopLoss=0; TrailingStop=0; UseMAControl=1; PeriodMA=100; PriceMA_0_6=0; TypeMA_0_3=0; SpanGator=0.5; SlipPage=3; OrderMagic=231313; SafetyGapDemarker=0.2; SafetyGapWPR=0; StartWorkTimeHour=0; StartWorkTimeMin=0; EndWorkTimeHour=0; EndWorkTimeMin=0; KEY="570554300";
Bars in test 317340 Ticks modelled 7755818 Modelling quality 89.97%
Mismatched charts errors 0
Initial deposit 5000.00
Total net profit 4092.79 Gross profit 12154.15 Gross loss -8061.35
Profit factor 1.51 Expected payoff 0.62
Absolute drawdown 547.72 Maximal drawdown 1571.17 (26.08%) Relative drawdown 26.08% (1571.17)
Total trades 6610 Short positions (won %) 2673 (93.12%) Long positions (won %) 3937 (93.17%)
Profit trades (% of total) 6157 (93.15%) Loss trades (% of total) 453 (6.85%)
Largest profit trade 2.33 loss trade -59.73
Average profit trade 1.97 loss trade -17.80
Maximum consecutive wins (profit in money) 432 (851.79) consecutive losses (loss in money) 20 (-841.00)
Maximal consecutive profit (count of wins) 851.79 (432) consecutive loss (count of losses) -841.00 (20)
Average consecutive wins 131 consecutive losses 10

Thank you newman for for doing the backtest on that. I'll be looking at what you sent me in just a few.

we are using auto lots... lots should be 0 not .01

I was going to say that too, it seemed a little off.

One day Earl we will sit down and have a beer or 12 in person... I Guarantee it, and everybody else is invited..... My Treat:):D

I'M GOING TO HOLD YOU TO THAT!!!!!

[n1ghtnday]

I think testing is some what flawed....

on my back testing hitting 98% over all and most times it's 1 trade that kills the whole account

Testing is flawed, indeed. But it is there to give us an idea I guess. I would only based your live expectations on what you see as your best test settings on a particular period chart. I do believe that the bot performs better on the M5 over the M1 in a live environment.


-nnd

[Earl]

I got it!!!! set the max lots(autolots only)